1
00:00:08,660 --> 00:00:05,690
welcome to tales from the rabbit hole

2
00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:08,670
I'm your host Mick West this is the very

3
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:10,650
first episode of tales from the rabbit

4
00:00:13,820 --> 00:00:12,210
hole and so I want to give a little

5
00:00:16,279 --> 00:00:13,830
overview of what the show is going to be

6
00:00:18,529 --> 00:00:16,289
about telefon the rabbit hole is a

7
00:00:20,779 --> 00:00:18,539
podcast of conspiracy culture

8
00:00:22,099 --> 00:00:20,789
conversations each week I'm going to

9
00:00:24,740 --> 00:00:22,109
interview someone whose life has been

10
00:00:26,900 --> 00:00:24,750
affected by the conspiracy culture

11
00:00:28,700 --> 00:00:26,910
rabbit hole this is going to include a

12
00:00:30,679 --> 00:00:28,710
variety of people we're going to have

13
00:00:33,170 --> 00:00:30,689
people who are believers in conspiracy

14
00:00:35,150 --> 00:00:33,180
theories we can have people who used to

15
00:00:36,620 --> 00:00:35,160
be believers in conspiracy theories and

16
00:00:38,389 --> 00:00:36,630
they're going to have a variety of other

17
00:00:40,940 --> 00:00:38,399
people whose lives had been affected by

18
00:00:43,150 --> 00:00:40,950
conspiracy theories the family members

19
00:00:44,750 --> 00:00:43,160
and loved ones of conspiracy theorists

20
00:00:47,060 --> 00:00:44,760
scientists who have been harassed

21
00:00:49,790 --> 00:00:47,070
because of false claims people like

22
00:00:51,410 --> 00:00:49,800
debunkers and investigators and

23
00:00:54,229 --> 00:00:51,420
brightest who talked about and

24
00:00:57,049 --> 00:00:54,239
investigate the phenomena of conspiracy

25
00:00:59,510 --> 00:00:57,059
theories telson the rabbit hole grew

26
00:01:02,330 --> 00:00:59,520
from my book escaping the rabbit hole

27
00:01:03,590 --> 00:01:02,340
which in turn grew from my website

28
00:01:06,370 --> 00:01:03,600
metaponto

29
00:01:08,750 --> 00:01:06,380
which is a forum for investigating

30
00:01:12,740 --> 00:01:08,760
debunking and discussing conspiracy

31
00:01:14,750 --> 00:01:12,750
theories i run the website for about 10

32
00:01:17,420 --> 00:01:14,760
years now I used to run another website

33
00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:17,430
called contrails science which was a

34
00:01:22,190 --> 00:01:19,890
site devoted to looking into the

35
00:01:23,990 --> 00:01:22,200
chemtrails conspiracy theory which is

36
00:01:26,090 --> 00:01:24,000
the belief that the government is

37
00:01:28,609 --> 00:01:26,100
spraying poisons or some kind of

38
00:01:30,980 --> 00:01:28,619
environment altering substance out of

39
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:30,990
the back of planes when I grew into meta

40
00:01:35,330 --> 00:01:33,210
bunk a meta bunk led to a bunch of

41
00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:35,340
podcasts appearances which I found very

42
00:01:41,420 --> 00:01:38,450
pretty fun to do and that in turn led to

43
00:01:43,069 --> 00:01:41,430
the book escaping the rabbit hole which

44
00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:43,079
is kind of a distillation of everything

45
00:01:48,710 --> 00:01:46,170
I'd learnt on meta bunk it's really how

46
00:01:50,210 --> 00:01:48,720
do people get into the rabbit hole how

47
00:01:52,789 --> 00:01:50,220
do they get out of the rabbit hole and

48
00:01:54,170 --> 00:01:52,799
how can we help them when I was writing

49
00:01:57,649 --> 00:01:54,180
that book I interviewed a lot of people

50
00:02:00,289 --> 00:01:57,659
who were former conspiracy theorists and

51
00:02:02,359 --> 00:02:00,299
I talked people who are current

52
00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:02,369
conspiracy theorists all the time and I

53
00:02:08,719 --> 00:02:04,890
also talked to debunkers and other

54
00:02:11,449 --> 00:02:08,729
people in the in the conspiracy culture

55
00:02:13,699 --> 00:02:11,459
I think a problem that we have with

56
00:02:15,380 --> 00:02:13,709
conspiracy theories is

57
00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:15,390
a lack of communication between the

58
00:02:18,709 --> 00:02:17,670
different people I think debunkers don't

59
00:02:21,140 --> 00:02:18,719
really understand that a lot of a

60
00:02:22,399 --> 00:02:21,150
motivation of conspiracy theorists and I

61
00:02:24,229 --> 00:02:22,409
think those spirity theorists don't

62
00:02:26,179 --> 00:02:24,239
understand the motivation of debunkers

63
00:02:28,699 --> 00:02:26,189
it's a part of the goal of this podcast

64
00:02:30,979 --> 00:02:28,709
is to kind of bridge that gap and let

65
00:02:33,890 --> 00:02:30,989
each side listen to the other in a kind

66
00:02:36,369 --> 00:02:33,900
of non confrontational way and just

67
00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:36,379
explain where you're coming from

68
00:02:41,059 --> 00:02:38,370
conspiracy theorists what do you believe

69
00:02:44,209 --> 00:02:41,069
in debunkers why do you tea bunk let's

70
00:02:47,179 --> 00:02:44,219
just have a chat and see what happens my

71
00:02:49,849 --> 00:02:47,189
first episode right now is with John an

72
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:49,859
ex conspiracy theorist the second

73
00:02:54,409 --> 00:02:51,450
episode is going to be with Mike

74
00:02:57,470 --> 00:02:54,419
Rothschild who is a investigator of the

75
00:02:58,909 --> 00:02:57,480
qyn on conspiracy theory and the third

76
00:03:00,830 --> 00:02:58,919
of fourth episodes are going to be

77
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:00,840
someone who's a member of the 9/11 truth

78
00:03:07,940 --> 00:03:05,370
community from Norway so without further

79
00:03:10,479 --> 00:03:07,950
ado let's go with the first episode John

80
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:10,489
the X conspiracy theorist

81
00:03:21,050 --> 00:03:17,370
this is tales from the rabbit hole so my

82
00:03:23,750 --> 00:03:21,060
guest today is John John runs the blog

83
00:03:26,390 --> 00:03:23,760
of the X conspiracy theorist and he also

84
00:03:29,179 --> 00:03:26,400
runs the Facebook page of the same name

85
00:03:30,309 --> 00:03:29,189
and he's on YouTube and I assume you're

86
00:03:33,379 --> 00:03:30,319
on Twitter too

87
00:03:34,849 --> 00:03:33,389
no Twitter account no Twitter okay but

88
00:03:38,349 --> 00:03:34,859
you've got a very interesting online

89
00:03:42,009 --> 00:03:38,359
presence with the X conspiracy theorist

90
00:03:44,809 --> 00:03:42,019
can you tell me a bit about how you

91
00:03:47,449 --> 00:03:44,819
became a conspiracy theorist in the

92
00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:47,459
first place well first started when I

93
00:03:51,890 --> 00:03:49,650
got interested in politics and started

94
00:03:54,409 --> 00:03:51,900
listening to talk radio mainly

95
00:03:56,390 --> 00:03:54,419
conservative talk radio which led me to

96
00:03:59,659 --> 00:03:56,400
Glenn Beck we all know his background

97
00:04:03,110 --> 00:03:59,669
with my political bias I tend to believe

98
00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:03,120
all anti-democrat anti liberal

99
00:04:08,050 --> 00:04:05,370
conspiracy theories communists run the

100
00:04:11,390 --> 00:04:08,060
government all John Birch Society

101
00:04:13,580 --> 00:04:11,400
inspired messaging he was pushing so as

102
00:04:16,069 --> 00:04:13,590
I listened to Glenn Beck that led me to

103
00:04:18,620 --> 00:04:16,079
other anti-obama outlets which led me to

104
00:04:22,969 --> 00:04:18,630
Alex Jones first with the Obama

105
00:04:24,730 --> 00:04:22,979
deception movie and that's when I

106
00:04:26,570 --> 00:04:24,740
started getting more into Alex Jones

107
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:26,580
alright that's pretty interesting

108
00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:27,600
because

109
00:04:32,300 --> 00:04:29,850
in the research I did in my book a lot

110
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:32,310
of people got into conspiracy theories

111
00:04:38,270 --> 00:04:35,370
via videos and it's interesting to hear

112
00:04:40,580 --> 00:04:38,280
that you started out with the the Glenn

113
00:04:43,220 --> 00:04:40,590
Beck thing be can you remember the some

114
00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:43,230
of the specific conspiracy theory type

115
00:04:47,840 --> 00:04:45,450
things that he was pushing back then

116
00:04:49,430 --> 00:04:47,850
you mentioned the or the Obama deception

117
00:04:51,410 --> 00:04:49,440
was Alex Jones so what was his quote was

118
00:04:54,770 --> 00:04:51,420
Glenn Beck's big thing that you were

119
00:04:58,310 --> 00:04:54,780
hooked on so at first basically it was

120
00:05:01,010 --> 00:04:58,320
when he introduced all the czars and he

121
00:05:03,770 --> 00:05:01,020
had gave it back on in each individual

122
00:05:06,740 --> 00:05:03,780
and that this also scared the hell out

123
00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:06,750
of me including the science czar he

124
00:05:10,940 --> 00:05:09,090
claimed wanted to put wanted to put

125
00:05:14,690 --> 00:05:10,950
chemicals in the water to sterilize

126
00:05:16,820 --> 00:05:14,700
everyone and Glenn Beck now I was kind

127
00:05:19,190 --> 00:05:16,830
of done a bit of a little bit of a sea

128
00:05:20,570 --> 00:05:19,200
change I think I've million following

129
00:05:24,860 --> 00:05:20,580
what he's been doing recently

130
00:05:26,810 --> 00:05:24,870
I just just recently no but I did notice

131
00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:26,820
over the over the years within the last

132
00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:29,430
two years he changed his format with

133
00:05:35,420 --> 00:05:32,160
pushing conspiracy theories and also

134
00:05:38,450 --> 00:05:35,430
coming out openly at pal he regrets how

135
00:05:40,430 --> 00:05:38,460
he divided America alright it's very

136
00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:40,440
interesting he's almost like he became

137
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:43,110
an ex conspiracy theorist himself you

138
00:05:48,740 --> 00:05:46,170
see that with a lot of people even in

139
00:05:51,710 --> 00:05:48,750
the public sphere who start out as very

140
00:05:55,190 --> 00:05:51,720
hardcore conspiracy theorists like Abby

141
00:05:57,650 --> 00:05:55,200
Martin comes to mind and Joe Rogan Joe

142
00:05:59,990 --> 00:05:57,660
Rogan used to be more of a believer in

143
00:06:04,220 --> 00:06:00,000
strange things but as people get older

144
00:06:07,370 --> 00:06:04,230
they tend to grow out of them some of

145
00:06:09,290 --> 00:06:07,380
them do yeah you get to understand more

146
00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:09,300
how the world works if you're if you're

147
00:06:13,130 --> 00:06:11,310
just like getting interested in politics

148
00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:13,140
or geopolitical politics

149
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:15,150
yeah and that's this very interesting

150
00:06:20,510 --> 00:06:18,410
thing in your little bio about how you

151
00:06:22,840 --> 00:06:20,520
learnt about the term the New World

152
00:06:25,220 --> 00:06:22,850
Order can you tell us about that

153
00:06:28,910 --> 00:06:25,230
yeah the New World Order is a term

154
00:06:31,340 --> 00:06:28,920
coined by George HW Bush but it's it's

155
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:31,350
been around for hundreds hundreds of

156
00:06:36,170 --> 00:06:33,810
years but in the context of George HW

157
00:06:38,030 --> 00:06:36,180
Bush he gave he used it multiple times

158
00:06:39,170 --> 00:06:38,040
to mark the beginning of the end of the

159
00:06:43,070 --> 00:06:39,180
Cold War

160
00:06:47,090 --> 00:06:43,080
and but me coming first getting involved

161
00:06:49,220 --> 00:06:47,100
in politics I didn't know this and but

162
00:06:51,110 --> 00:06:49,230
then when I heard Alex Jones talking

163
00:06:53,270 --> 00:06:51,120
about the New World Order that was my

164
00:06:55,430 --> 00:06:53,280
understanding of it but then first when

165
00:06:58,070 --> 00:06:55,440
I got gotten to college I took foreign

166
00:07:00,590 --> 00:06:58,080
policy classes I got a more more

167
00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:00,600
understanding what the New World Order

168
00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:02,850
was but first when my professor

169
00:07:06,020 --> 00:07:04,770
mentioned in a new world order I was

170
00:07:08,870 --> 00:07:06,030
like oh my god I'm gonna get

171
00:07:11,180 --> 00:07:08,880
confirmation of my beliefs but in the

172
00:07:14,060 --> 00:07:11,190
end I found out what it really was and

173
00:07:16,820 --> 00:07:14,070
what did it just it's just a term coined

174
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:16,830
by Bush to mark the end of the Cold War

175
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:18,450
right and how we're gonna tackle the

176
00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:20,370
rest of the world so it's just what the

177
00:07:25,190 --> 00:07:22,290
world is like now as opposed to what it

178
00:07:28,910 --> 00:07:25,200
was before because the Soviet Union is

179
00:07:31,010 --> 00:07:28,920
fallen essentially yes yeah it's very

180
00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:31,020
interesting if you look at the history

181
00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:33,150
of that there's a website called the

182
00:07:37,340 --> 00:07:35,370
American presidency project which has

183
00:07:39,740 --> 00:07:37,350
the text of everybody every president

184
00:07:41,750 --> 00:07:39,750
has ever ever said and you could search

185
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:41,760
for it for a particular term and then

186
00:07:46,970 --> 00:07:43,890
you can see how many times each

187
00:07:49,190 --> 00:07:46,980
president said it and it does get

188
00:07:51,020 --> 00:07:49,200
mentioned from time to time but it

189
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:51,030
people I think are not really referring

190
00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:53,610
to a specific thing a lot of the time

191
00:07:58,970 --> 00:07:56,310
it's just you know here is this is

192
00:08:00,860 --> 00:07:58,980
what's new in the world like if after

193
00:08:02,780 --> 00:08:00,870
the first world war there was a new

194
00:08:04,700 --> 00:08:02,790
world order after the Second World War

195
00:08:06,260 --> 00:08:04,710
there was a new world order after the

196
00:08:07,730 --> 00:08:06,270
fall of the Soviet Union there was a new

197
00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:07,740
world order and now there's probably

198
00:08:10,790 --> 00:08:08,850
going to be another new world order

199
00:08:12,740 --> 00:08:10,800
because there's going to be some other

200
00:08:14,390 --> 00:08:12,750
big change in the world here

201
00:08:17,540 --> 00:08:14,400
England has left for Britain has left

202
00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:17,550
Europe that creates a new world order in

203
00:08:22,550 --> 00:08:19,710
Europe so yes it's very interesting I

204
00:08:23,810 --> 00:08:22,560
think that these these terms take on a

205
00:08:28,490 --> 00:08:23,820
life of their own and it's really just

206
00:08:31,910 --> 00:08:28,500
people are missing out information yeah

207
00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:31,920
the absence of the information yeah yeah

208
00:08:37,340 --> 00:08:34,250
like one thing I tried to do when

209
00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:37,350
debunking is not so much to try to

210
00:08:40,820 --> 00:08:38,970
correct things but figure out what

211
00:08:43,130 --> 00:08:40,830
people are missing and then just try to

212
00:08:45,230 --> 00:08:43,140
supply them with information would you

213
00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:45,240
say that's similar to what you're doing

214
00:08:51,290 --> 00:08:49,530
with um my tag might tact it mostly with

215
00:08:52,910 --> 00:08:51,300
what I try to do when I try to confront

216
00:08:55,190 --> 00:08:52,920
conspiracy theorists try to ask

217
00:08:57,050 --> 00:08:55,200
questions like if they say okay the

218
00:08:58,910 --> 00:08:57,060
buildings the World Trade Center came

219
00:09:00,560 --> 00:08:58,920
down and controlled demolition mmm you

220
00:09:04,009 --> 00:09:00,570
could have you could ask them okay how

221
00:09:06,319 --> 00:09:04,019
did they do it was it done by wires or

222
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:06,329
wireless detonation or how many bombs

223
00:09:09,710 --> 00:09:08,850
are we talking about so as they ponder

224
00:09:12,740 --> 00:09:09,720
they'll start to ask questions

225
00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:12,750
themselves yeah it's interesting a lot

226
00:09:19,129 --> 00:09:15,930
of people I think don't look into it

227
00:09:22,189 --> 00:09:19,139
beyond the initial information that's

228
00:09:25,100 --> 00:09:22,199
given to them in in videos you mentioned

229
00:09:28,490 --> 00:09:25,110
you watched the video zeitgeist and this

230
00:09:31,850 --> 00:09:28,500
is a movie that's kind of ties in 9/11

231
00:09:34,689 --> 00:09:31,860
with religion and and the money supply

232
00:09:38,509 --> 00:09:34,699
it's kind of a three-part overarching

233
00:09:41,150 --> 00:09:38,519
conspiracy and you were being very

234
00:09:42,829 --> 00:09:41,160
interested in Mormonism at that time can

235
00:09:45,290 --> 00:09:42,839
you tell us a bit about how that all

236
00:09:49,189 --> 00:09:45,300
tied together with the zeitgeist and

237
00:09:51,170 --> 00:09:49,199
you're interested in Mormonism well when

238
00:09:53,150 --> 00:09:51,180
I first got interested in Mormonism I

239
00:09:55,430 --> 00:09:53,160
thought this would be the next step to

240
00:09:57,259 --> 00:09:55,440
my religious path which because that's

241
00:09:59,509 --> 00:09:57,269
what the Book of Mormon is it's a sequel

242
00:10:03,680 --> 00:09:59,519
to the Bible or you could you could call

243
00:10:07,370 --> 00:10:03,690
it Christian fanfiction but and a good

244
00:10:09,590 --> 00:10:07,380
term as I got interested in it heard of

245
00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:09,600
the South Park episode on Mormonism and

246
00:10:14,870 --> 00:10:11,850
then I thought to myself there's no way

247
00:10:18,079 --> 00:10:14,880
could be that laughably fake when when

248
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:18,089
it comes to specific claims and this was

249
00:10:22,610 --> 00:10:20,010
the first time in my life something I

250
00:10:25,819 --> 00:10:22,620
started to sincerely believe could be

251
00:10:27,710 --> 00:10:25,829
wrong hmm and once that starts you start

252
00:10:29,540 --> 00:10:27,720
to ask questions of other things you

253
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:29,550
might believe that you're basing it on

254
00:10:36,710 --> 00:10:33,600
very narrow sources so you would say

255
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:36,720
this South Park essentially a South Park

256
00:10:41,889 --> 00:10:39,290
humorous debunking video of Mormonism

257
00:10:44,809 --> 00:10:41,899
started you on your journey into

258
00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:44,819
skepticism yes I started asking

259
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:47,670
questions of all these outlandish claims

260
00:10:50,329 --> 00:10:48,810
yes okay

261
00:10:51,530 --> 00:10:50,339
it's interesting because you know South

262
00:10:54,710 --> 00:10:51,540
Park obviously isn't something people

263
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:54,720
would think of but that episode it's a

264
00:11:00,170 --> 00:10:57,360
fairly factual betrayal of the claims

265
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:00,180
and Mormonism like Joseph Smith looked

266
00:11:06,110 --> 00:11:03,600
into his hat to get some of the

267
00:11:07,759 --> 00:11:06,120
translations of the tablets I believe

268
00:11:10,309 --> 00:11:07,769
and these are things that are actually

269
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:10,319
in in Mormon history and they were just

270
00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:12,959
betraying them and it does seem somewhat

271
00:11:15,019 --> 00:11:13,529
ridiculous

272
00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:15,029
I think the Mormons themselves know that

273
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:17,370
it seems a bit ridiculous and a lot of

274
00:11:20,389 --> 00:11:18,569
them actually like that south part

275
00:11:21,499 --> 00:11:20,399
episode and the Book of Mormon things

276
00:11:23,629 --> 00:11:21,509
like that things that seem like they're

277
00:11:25,910 --> 00:11:23,639
mocking Mormonism in some ways are

278
00:11:29,150 --> 00:11:25,920
actually very real depictions of it but

279
00:11:33,049 --> 00:11:29,160
anyway so zeitgeist do you what what did

280
00:11:34,970 --> 00:11:33,059
you get out of zeitgeist zeitgeist if

281
00:11:37,850 --> 00:11:34,980
anybody watches it it really does

282
00:11:39,379 --> 00:11:37,860
question you the whole perspective that

283
00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:39,389
we live in because it starts with

284
00:11:44,509 --> 00:11:42,689
religion then it starts with of course

285
00:11:46,999 --> 00:11:44,519
9/11 attacks and it starts with the

286
00:11:49,009 --> 00:11:47,009
banking system but that really pushes

287
00:11:52,009 --> 00:11:49,019
you in the corner because it's making

288
00:11:54,710 --> 00:11:52,019
all these claims but then when you start

289
00:11:56,989 --> 00:11:54,720
to look at debunking x' and academic

290
00:11:59,449 --> 00:11:56,999
examination of some of the claims that

291
00:12:02,420 --> 00:11:59,459
makes about religion which are not

292
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:02,430
necessarily accurate but they once you

293
00:12:06,559 --> 00:12:03,930
get once you get into those claims you

294
00:12:08,389 --> 00:12:06,569
start to realize this it's as if this

295
00:12:10,639 --> 00:12:08,399
person came up with the conclusion and

296
00:12:12,499 --> 00:12:10,649
made up facts mm-hmm I don't know how

297
00:12:15,019 --> 00:12:12,509
familiar you are with the zeitgeist with

298
00:12:17,230 --> 00:12:15,029
it I've seen it with its with his

299
00:12:19,309 --> 00:12:17,240
fabrication poets from certain figures

300
00:12:20,689 --> 00:12:19,319
yeah I don't know specifics but I

301
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:20,699
remember they they did something about

302
00:12:26,259 --> 00:12:23,490
the son of God being the son and

303
00:12:28,460 --> 00:12:26,269
therefore it's the Egyptian god rah and

304
00:12:31,189 --> 00:12:28,470
they made these various spurious

305
00:12:34,639 --> 00:12:31,199
connections but perhaps they sounded

306
00:12:35,179 --> 00:12:34,649
good on you know on the video but didn't

307
00:12:37,249 --> 00:12:35,189
yes

308
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:37,259
pan out some of them are interesting

309
00:12:41,869 --> 00:12:38,639
like I'm not disputing some of the

310
00:12:44,929 --> 00:12:41,879
religious claims it makes but it it

311
00:12:46,669 --> 00:12:44,939
start it goes to an conclusion that is

312
00:12:48,530 --> 00:12:46,679
not really backed up saying that it

313
00:12:50,119 --> 00:12:48,540
christianity was that deliberate hopes

314
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:50,129
by people who knew exactly what they

315
00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:52,610
were doing so I think that's a bit of a

316
00:12:58,220 --> 00:12:56,370
stretch yes I would think so that's true

317
00:13:00,049 --> 00:12:58,230
for I think a lot of these uber

318
00:13:03,530 --> 00:13:00,059
conspiracies where it's an overarching

319
00:13:04,970 --> 00:13:03,540
conspiracy it it seems a bit of a

320
00:13:07,579 --> 00:13:04,980
stretch that was just a small group of

321
00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:07,589
people pulling the strings of everything

322
00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:10,050
in the world when you know just how

323
00:13:14,780 --> 00:13:12,569
complicated the world they're so after

324
00:13:16,730 --> 00:13:14,790
you started questioning things after

325
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:16,740
watching South Park and the episode on

326
00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:19,920
Mormonism you got more interested

327
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:22,350
and looking at the debunking side of

328
00:13:27,019 --> 00:13:24,690
things did that go straight into that or

329
00:13:29,389 --> 00:13:27,029
was there like some other thing that

330
00:13:30,430 --> 00:13:29,399
triggered it along with the South Park

331
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:30,440
thing

332
00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:33,360
it was my religious experience with

333
00:13:39,170 --> 00:13:36,570
Mormonism and also with sag guys when I

334
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:39,180
found out that a claim I sincerely

335
00:13:43,310 --> 00:13:41,010
believe from that guys could be wrong

336
00:13:47,269 --> 00:13:43,320
just like I did with Mormonism they're

337
00:13:49,009 --> 00:13:47,279
just that that combination made me look

338
00:13:51,439 --> 00:13:49,019
at other debunking 'he's right but you

339
00:13:54,199 --> 00:13:51,449
wouldn't obviously immediately like

340
00:13:56,530 --> 00:13:54,209
flips to believing you know everything

341
00:14:00,769 --> 00:13:56,540
in the mainstream I'd imagine it was

342
00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:00,779
taken a while to and I'm sure you don't

343
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:02,010
still believe everything in the

344
00:14:06,829 --> 00:14:03,690
mainstream media obviously like nobody

345
00:14:08,449 --> 00:14:06,839
does but so what was like the next step

346
00:14:10,490 --> 00:14:08,459
what types of things were you looking

347
00:14:12,410 --> 00:14:10,500
into after that after that like I

348
00:14:14,629 --> 00:14:12,420
started to believe less outlandish stuff

349
00:14:17,210 --> 00:14:14,639
but still stuck to other conspiracies

350
00:14:18,889 --> 00:14:17,220
that were I thought less outlandish just

351
00:14:21,949 --> 00:14:18,899
because my political bias back then cuz

352
00:14:25,189 --> 00:14:21,959
like it went from me believing 9/11 was

353
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:25,199
an inside job to saying okay Alex Jones

354
00:14:29,780 --> 00:14:26,970
is wrong about 9/11 but he's right about

355
00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:29,790
the underwear bomber being staged yeah I

356
00:14:35,470 --> 00:14:32,010
could see you kind of stepping down the

357
00:14:39,439 --> 00:14:35,480
intensity of the the implausibility of

358
00:14:42,189 --> 00:14:39,449
the beliefs what do you think about Alex

359
00:14:44,750 --> 00:14:42,199
Jones being removed from YouTube I

360
00:14:46,910 --> 00:14:44,760
honestly think it's a disappointment

361
00:14:49,819 --> 00:14:46,920
because that was the Alex Jones archive

362
00:14:51,410 --> 00:14:49,829
where anybody can look at his past and

363
00:14:54,590 --> 00:14:51,420
some of the interviews were interesting

364
00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:54,600
the one interview I kind of liked for a

365
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:56,370
nostalgia reasons was his interview with

366
00:15:01,430 --> 00:14:58,079
the late Alan Colmes

367
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:01,440
mmm when he got on the show also his

368
00:15:05,180 --> 00:15:03,360
interview of Donald Trump's gone now so

369
00:15:07,069 --> 00:15:05,190
I tried searching for it online I can't

370
00:15:08,750 --> 00:15:07,079
really find it anywhere else you know

371
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:08,760
it's interesting and I'm not sure if

372
00:15:12,350 --> 00:15:11,250
it's gonna be a net good because there's

373
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:12,360
going to be a lot of pushback from

374
00:15:15,470 --> 00:15:14,970
people thinking it validates the the

375
00:15:18,650 --> 00:15:15,480
government

376
00:15:21,139 --> 00:15:18,660
censoring things like it's it basically

377
00:15:22,670 --> 00:15:21,149
says his predictions came true that the

378
00:15:25,129 --> 00:15:22,680
government will try to shut him down

379
00:15:27,350 --> 00:15:25,139
which i think is gonna rile up his base

380
00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:27,360
to a degree but of course it's also

381
00:15:31,009 --> 00:15:29,190
going to limit his audience less people

382
00:15:33,810 --> 00:15:31,019
will see him but maybe you'll see an

383
00:15:37,580 --> 00:15:33,820
intensification of a smaller number

384
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:37,590
of people you mentioned a few times

385
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:40,570
chasing ghosts what do you mean by

386
00:15:46,140 --> 00:15:44,320
chasing ghosts we do better when we try

387
00:15:48,330 --> 00:15:46,150
to focus on things that are real rather

388
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:48,340
than chasing things that are imaginary

389
00:15:52,050 --> 00:15:50,770
all right and make-believe like you've

390
00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:52,060
mentioned that a couple of times I think

391
00:15:55,050 --> 00:15:53,950
you when you're on Joe Rogan show said

392
00:15:57,540 --> 00:15:55,060
do better than tackling the world's

393
00:15:59,160 --> 00:15:57,550
problems yeah yeah I think conspiracy

394
00:16:01,550 --> 00:15:59,170
theories that are false are uh no

395
00:16:04,110 --> 00:16:01,560
obviously going to be a distraction from

396
00:16:06,030 --> 00:16:04,120
real problems and real actual

397
00:16:08,820 --> 00:16:06,040
conspiracies so yeah I would agree with

398
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:08,830
you they're chasing ghosts is a is a bad

399
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:13,450
thing so I see you've been reading

400
00:16:18,630 --> 00:16:16,330
behold a pale horse which is a book by

401
00:16:21,630 --> 00:16:18,640
will a William Cooper was a very old

402
00:16:25,490 --> 00:16:21,640
school conspiracy theorist who I think

403
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:25,500
died in the 90s or the early 80s and 90s

404
00:16:31,410 --> 00:16:27,730
what what have you learned from looking

405
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:31,420
at behold a pale horse it's interesting

406
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:33,970
I think if Cooper were alive today he'd

407
00:16:39,810 --> 00:16:36,610
be just as influential because he was a

408
00:16:44,370 --> 00:16:39,820
rival of Alex Jones in the 1990s he had

409
00:16:47,730 --> 00:16:44,380
a pretty insightful analysis of Alex

410
00:16:49,470 --> 00:16:47,740
Jones and his y2k scare and I don't know

411
00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:49,480
if you've seen that pretty funny I

412
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:51,310
reviewed the whole book like the whole

413
00:16:54,630 --> 00:16:52,690
thing you think it's a joke when it

414
00:16:56,580 --> 00:16:54,640
talks about the alien claims saying that

415
00:16:59,610 --> 00:16:56,590
there were interplanetary treaties with

416
00:17:03,000 --> 00:16:59,620
aliens we've been in communication we

417
00:17:06,449 --> 00:17:03,010
have moon bases and spoiler spoiler

418
00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:06,459
alert he he backtracked on that all

419
00:17:10,590 --> 00:17:09,070
those alien claims completely mmm he

420
00:17:12,569 --> 00:17:10,600
went from saying there's all this stuff

421
00:17:15,689 --> 00:17:12,579
to saying that there's no evidence of

422
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:15,699
aliens ever existing really let's see

423
00:17:19,050 --> 00:17:16,959
all right very interesting but even

424
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:19,060
people who are very deep down the rabbit

425
00:17:24,630 --> 00:17:21,970
hole can get out of various sub rabbit

426
00:17:26,819 --> 00:17:24,640
holes at least I think it's kind of good

427
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:26,829
to be aware of you know lots of people

428
00:17:30,690 --> 00:17:28,329
get out of the rabbit hole it's not an

429
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:30,700
impossible thing it just seems like

430
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:32,890
they're really stuck down there you you

431
00:17:38,340 --> 00:17:35,530
were big into conspiracy theories for a

432
00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:38,350
couple of years right it was a two years

433
00:17:43,740 --> 00:17:41,560
exactly and during that time did your

434
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:43,750
friends and family try to talk you out

435
00:17:47,980 --> 00:17:45,530
of it

436
00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:47,990
some of them actually believe some of

437
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:49,730
the stuff mainly the ain't anti-obama

438
00:17:56,020 --> 00:17:53,210
sentiment but there were like my dad he

439
00:17:59,260 --> 00:17:56,030
tried to talk me out of listen to Alex

440
00:18:02,530 --> 00:17:59,270
Jones it didn't affect the relationship

441
00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:02,540
wise but he but um it was like a you

442
00:18:06,790 --> 00:18:04,370
have your opinions I had my opinions all

443
00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:06,800
right give me even if they're effing

444
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:10,370
crazy did you think it's his trying to

445
00:18:16,330 --> 00:18:13,010
talk you out helped at all in the long

446
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:16,340
run yes cuz yeah you have someone to

447
00:18:20,260 --> 00:18:18,710
talk to saying like yeah problem and

448
00:18:23,140 --> 00:18:20,270
family was the only one that was telling

449
00:18:26,590 --> 00:18:23,150
me that maybe this isn't a someone you

450
00:18:28,630 --> 00:18:26,600
should listen to so would you say in a

451
00:18:30,820 --> 00:18:28,640
way like your family situation and those

452
00:18:32,980 --> 00:18:30,830
around you can have eased your

453
00:18:37,450 --> 00:18:32,990
transition into the rabbit hole because

454
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:37,460
they were conservatives anti Obama types

455
00:18:42,100 --> 00:18:39,410
they're conservative into your bomber

456
00:18:44,050 --> 00:18:42,110
types that and it was mainly because

457
00:18:47,140 --> 00:18:44,060
Alex Jones was the inside job guy

458
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:47,150
mmm-hmm cuz st. Bush as a mass murderer

459
00:18:52,570 --> 00:18:49,010
that is a rubber old well with them so

460
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:52,580
so now you've kind of switched teams

461
00:18:56,340 --> 00:18:54,770
how's that affected your relationships

462
00:18:59,530 --> 00:18:56,350
with those members of your family

463
00:19:00,730 --> 00:18:59,540
they're okay with it but I actually

464
00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:00,740
don't want to get in personal details

465
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:03,740
but it's much better now good good yeah

466
00:19:09,790 --> 00:19:06,850
yeah because people I think worry a lot

467
00:19:11,410 --> 00:19:09,800
about getting into discussions with

468
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:11,420
family members because it's very very

469
00:19:17,260 --> 00:19:13,250
touchy and you know family relationships

470
00:19:19,150 --> 00:19:17,270
are difficult enough as it is and if you

471
00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:19,160
introduce new areas of conflict it can

472
00:19:25,030 --> 00:19:22,130
be difficult for people yeah I I myself

473
00:19:26,770 --> 00:19:25,040
have to sometimes not exactly tip sir

474
00:19:28,420 --> 00:19:26,780
but you have to think about the other

475
00:19:32,050 --> 00:19:28,430
family members feelings like some of my

476
00:19:34,260 --> 00:19:32,060
family is religious and bringing up the

477
00:19:37,420 --> 00:19:34,270
topic of religion because I'm an atheist

478
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:37,430
it makes it kind of difficult sometimes

479
00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:40,610
to have a conversation but if you just

480
00:19:43,330 --> 00:19:42,020
simply respect the other person and

481
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:43,340
respect that they have a differing

482
00:19:47,650 --> 00:19:45,410
opinion people can usually get along

483
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:47,660
it's not like there's going to be the

484
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:49,010
the end of the world just because you

485
00:19:53,230 --> 00:19:51,770
have irreconcilable opinions on one

486
00:19:55,780 --> 00:19:53,240
thing use plenty of other things to talk

487
00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:55,790
about so what what are you what are your

488
00:20:00,380 --> 00:19:57,510
plans for the future with

489
00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:00,390
with the ex conspiracy theorist well I'm

490
00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:03,060
trying to I'm trying to expand mainly by

491
00:20:08,770 --> 00:20:05,250
I said I recently started my patreon

492
00:20:11,810 --> 00:20:08,780
page trying to get money to expand

493
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:11,820
social media wise whether that's making

494
00:20:16,790 --> 00:20:14,640
high-quality videos regarding conspiracy

495
00:20:19,550 --> 00:20:16,800
theories I already did part one of my

496
00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:19,560
review of william cooper win cruz book

497
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:21,240
and part two is going to be about

498
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:23,930
william cooper himself very interesting

499
00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:26,010
yeah william coupe is an interesting

500
00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:29,190
chap because there there's a guy on my

501
00:20:33,590 --> 00:20:31,290
forum who used to be a friend of william

502
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:33,600
Cooper's who is now a kind of a hardcore

503
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:37,110
deep bunker so I think it's a lot of the

504
00:20:41,750 --> 00:20:38,960
times you get these people who were in

505
00:20:46,970 --> 00:20:41,760
certain world and when they get out of

506
00:20:48,340 --> 00:20:46,980
it they they feel compelled to explain

507
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:48,350
why that world was wrong

508
00:20:54,830 --> 00:20:51,690
why do you think you wanted to do what

509
00:20:57,050 --> 00:20:54,840
you're doing what compels you because

510
00:20:58,850 --> 00:20:57,060
I've seen what it does to people like I

511
00:21:02,090 --> 00:20:58,860
didn't have the most horrific experience

512
00:21:04,220 --> 00:21:02,100
but there are plenty of more sad stories

513
00:21:06,020 --> 00:21:04,230
of people who have gone down this path

514
00:21:10,070 --> 00:21:06,030
how it's affected their family friends

515
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:10,080
losing their job being called out on the

516
00:21:13,370 --> 00:21:11,490
internet when they get when it's seen

517
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:13,380
that they're part of a conspiracy

518
00:21:18,620 --> 00:21:15,360
movement that offends people with it

519
00:21:20,930 --> 00:21:18,630
that's 9/11 accusing someone of running

520
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:20,940
a sex trafficking ring a piece of gate

521
00:21:26,180 --> 00:21:23,910
thing mm-hmm yeah one of the things you

522
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:26,190
got to get across to people is that it

523
00:21:32,420 --> 00:21:29,580
would be is fine to be very passionate

524
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:32,430
about a topic but if your topic is

525
00:21:37,610 --> 00:21:35,250
incorrect then it's also fine for people

526
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:37,620
to be passionate about debunking that

527
00:21:42,110 --> 00:21:40,650
topic people like say why don't you just

528
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:42,120
let me believe what I want to believe

529
00:21:47,930 --> 00:21:45,090
and I think that's kind of a nonsensical

530
00:21:49,820 --> 00:21:47,940
thing to say when it comes to things

531
00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:49,830
that are fact-based like working without

532
00:21:53,150 --> 00:21:51,990
9/11 well what I would say to that like

533
00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:53,160
you say why can't you just let me

534
00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:55,260
believe what I want to believe I would

535
00:21:58,780 --> 00:21:56,910
say because you vote and there are

536
00:22:00,770 --> 00:21:58,790
millions of like you that all they're

537
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:00,780
voting with this in mind

538
00:22:04,820 --> 00:22:02,850
yeah people make decisions based upon

539
00:22:07,780 --> 00:22:04,830
their beliefs and it's not just voting

540
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:07,790
it's their life decisions

541
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:10,250
the alternative medicine type of people

542
00:22:14,770 --> 00:22:12,530
who believe that there's this huge

543
00:22:17,230 --> 00:22:14,780
conspiracy to cover up these cheap cures

544
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:17,240
for cancer they might end up not giving

545
00:22:21,310 --> 00:22:19,730
their children the medicine they need so

546
00:22:23,710 --> 00:22:21,320
there can be real harm from things that

547
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:23,720
are essentially conspiracy theorists

548
00:22:29,860 --> 00:22:26,450
what when you talk to people about

549
00:22:31,750 --> 00:22:29,870
conspiracy theories what

550
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:31,760
say someone came up to you and and said

551
00:22:37,210 --> 00:22:34,250
you know I think 9/11 was an inside job

552
00:22:39,010 --> 00:22:37,220
because it's obvious that the building's

553
00:22:40,510 --> 00:22:39,020
came down from controls demolition

554
00:22:41,050 --> 00:22:40,520
because you can see these giant puffs of

555
00:22:42,490 --> 00:22:41,060
smoke

556
00:22:45,910 --> 00:22:42,500
what would your approach be to just

557
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:45,920
start the conversation I would simply

558
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:48,410
ask can you name a single fireproof

559
00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:51,050
explosive that doesn't make sound hmm

560
00:22:54,190 --> 00:22:52,370
and the case of the towers would be

561
00:22:56,290 --> 00:22:54,200
hundreds or thousands or whatever the

562
00:22:57,970 --> 00:22:56,300
math was you did on the towers yeah I

563
00:23:01,570 --> 00:22:57,980
suppose they would say nano thermite

564
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:01,580
and then nano thermite that's encased in

565
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:04,930
some fireproof material like asbestos

566
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:07,730
how would you how do you move on from if

567
00:23:11,650 --> 00:23:09,410
someone just dropped something like that

568
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:11,660
in your lap I would just say are you

569
00:23:17,260 --> 00:23:13,610
saying the plate the plane didn't rub it

570
00:23:20,110 --> 00:23:17,270
off right towers yeah yeah it's uh I

571
00:23:22,420 --> 00:23:20,120
think it's you get this constantly

572
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:22,430
shifting goal posts with conspiracy

573
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:25,130
theorists it's a difficult thing to pin

574
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:27,290
people down I was try to try to make

575
00:23:32,830 --> 00:23:29,090
them focus on one point rather than

576
00:23:35,650 --> 00:23:32,840
jumping from point to point have you

577
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:35,660
been involved in online communities with

578
00:23:41,070 --> 00:23:38,210
other conspiracy theorists like when you

579
00:23:44,100 --> 00:23:41,080
were a conspiracy theorist did you join

580
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:44,110
facebook groups and things like that

581
00:23:47,950 --> 00:23:46,310
honestly I didn't even know about

582
00:23:49,180 --> 00:23:47,960
Facebook groups until I think it was

583
00:23:51,970 --> 00:23:49,190
2013

584
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:51,980
right which is well after that but I was

585
00:23:55,870 --> 00:23:54,410
mainly sticking to YouTube and all the

586
00:23:58,150 --> 00:23:55,880
conspiracy channels that were out there

587
00:23:59,830 --> 00:23:58,160
and comments so did you actually have

588
00:24:02,890 --> 00:23:59,840
interaction with other conspiracy

589
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:02,900
theorists oh I didn't attend two rallies

590
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:04,730
or anything because I I thought that

591
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:06,250
that would be a bridge too far for me

592
00:24:11,770 --> 00:24:09,290
going out with me we're holding a sign

593
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:11,780
that says 9/11 was an inside job that's

594
00:24:15,610 --> 00:24:13,490
something I thought may not be the best

595
00:24:17,650 --> 00:24:15,620
course of action so would you say you

596
00:24:20,110 --> 00:24:17,660
were basically just a consumer of

597
00:24:20,950 --> 00:24:20,120
conspiracy theorist you were yeah that's

598
00:24:23,470 --> 00:24:20,960
a better all right

599
00:24:27,220 --> 00:24:23,480
right you watched a lot of what a lot of

600
00:24:30,130 --> 00:24:27,230
conspiracy videos mmm did you you you

601
00:24:33,789 --> 00:24:30,140
watch a lot of conspiracy videos did you

602
00:24:35,620 --> 00:24:33,799
have other information sources or were

603
00:24:38,380 --> 00:24:35,630
you limiting yourself to more conspiracy

604
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:38,390
oriented things like Alex Jones I did

605
00:24:44,230 --> 00:24:41,110
you watch the the TV news for example I

606
00:24:45,789 --> 00:24:44,240
watched it but just when Alex Jones said

607
00:24:49,060 --> 00:24:45,799
some stuff was happening and I'm like I

608
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:49,070
turned on the news for myself and would

609
00:24:52,570 --> 00:24:50,240
look at it every now and then but

610
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:52,580
looking at news looking at mainstream

611
00:24:57,220 --> 00:24:54,770
news that cut supposedly kind of helps

612
00:24:59,919 --> 00:24:57,230
you get away from your very narrow

613
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:59,929
sources but with me it just didn't help

614
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:01,760
like I just looked at the news and went

615
00:25:06,909 --> 00:25:04,370
back to listen Alex Jones so what do you

616
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:06,919
where do you get your news now if you

617
00:25:10,690 --> 00:25:08,090
want to follow what's going on in the

618
00:25:13,180 --> 00:25:10,700
world what do you do personally the

619
00:25:15,250 --> 00:25:13,190
variety of sources of course I listen to

620
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:15,260
mainstream media because that's pretty

621
00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:18,049
much what we have now but also media

622
00:25:22,450 --> 00:25:20,870
analysts like Media Matters or people

623
00:25:24,580 --> 00:25:22,460
who who work on freelance with

624
00:25:26,110 --> 00:25:24,590
journalism but they're not really part

625
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:26,120
of big media like the New York Times

626
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:28,250
like it if the New York Times is getting

627
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:29,600
something wrong there's nothing wrong

628
00:25:35,019 --> 00:25:31,730
with with calling them out on it right

629
00:25:37,060 --> 00:25:35,029
yeah definitely yeah we should trust yet

630
00:25:39,039 --> 00:25:37,070
verify I think is the best way of

631
00:25:41,889 --> 00:25:39,049
looking at it we know that they're

632
00:25:43,419 --> 00:25:41,899
generally correct do you look at any of

633
00:25:46,919 --> 00:25:43,429
the fact-checking sites like

634
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:46,929
factcheck.org or oh yeah original Snopes

635
00:25:53,590 --> 00:25:49,850
yeah that check that org that was one of

636
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:53,600
the first what not really conspiracy

637
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:55,760
debunking but generally like that spewed

638
00:25:59,080 --> 00:25:58,010
out by politicians that they check out

639
00:26:03,190 --> 00:25:59,090
the PolitiFact

640
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:03,200
they're unbelievable in what way just

641
00:26:09,389 --> 00:26:06,049
about how many claims they accumulate

642
00:26:12,130 --> 00:26:09,399
from specific figures how they organize

643
00:26:14,399 --> 00:26:12,140
statements by political figures and how

644
00:26:18,159 --> 00:26:14,409
much false claims Trump has made yes

645
00:26:18,610 --> 00:26:18,169
that's quite unbelievable in itself all

646
00:26:20,620 --> 00:26:18,620
right

647
00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:20,630
well thank you very much John is there

648
00:26:24,940 --> 00:26:22,370
anything you'd like to add or like give

649
00:26:27,340 --> 00:26:24,950
a shout out for your website before we

650
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:27,350
go yeah sure you could follow me on

651
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:29,570
facebook at the ex conspiracy theorist

652
00:26:34,370 --> 00:26:31,970
or i'm go to my youtube channel VX

653
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:34,380
conspiracy theorist or

654
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:35,970
you want to help donate to my patreon

655
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:38,220
which is on my website you could find it

656
00:26:46,220 --> 00:26:43,010
out @e x conspiracy dot blog spot.com

657
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:46,230
alright thank you very much John have a

658
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:52,410
good day this was the first episode of

659
00:26:57,890 --> 00:26:54,390
tales from the rabbit hole you can

660
00:27:01,610 --> 00:26:57,900
follow us on the web at TF t rh comm or

661
00:27:04,130 --> 00:27:01,620
meta bunk or you'll find me on twitter

662
00:27:07,550 --> 00:27:04,140
at my quest you can find me on youtube

663
00:27:10,490 --> 00:27:07,560
at request you can find me on facebook

664
00:27:12,910 --> 00:27:10,500
and meta bunk and you can always

665
00:27:15,980 --> 00:27:12,920
subscribe wherever you get your podcasts

666
00:27:16,810 --> 00:27:15,990
this has been my quest with tales from